Post by BATMAN1 on Oct 4, 2006 8:45:31 GMT -5
From: filmforce.ign.com
Dark Knight Detective Work
IGN dissects the next Bat-film, investigating its ties to the character's comic book roots.
by Stax
September 29, 2006 - The purpose of this feature is to speculate on what The Dark Knight, the follow-up to Batman Begins, might be about and how The Joker (to be played by Heath Ledger) might be portrayed in the film. This speculation will be based primarily on the public comments made by the film's principals – including Ledger, director Christopher Nolan and Batman Begins screenwriter David Goyer – as well as an analysis of the comic books cited by them as being an influence on the sequel.
"The title has been chosen very specifically. It's quite important to the film," Chris Nolan said in a recent interview with Mean Magazine. The helmer coyly declined to elaborate further on that meaning, saying, "I'll leave that for people to infer."
In that same interview, Nolan addressed some of the themes of the film. In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne confronted his fear and explored the meaning of justice versus revenge. The Dark Knight will be "about things having to get worse before they get better."
While Nolan did not go into great detail about The Joker, he advised fans that Alan Moore's classic graphic novel The Killing Joke won't be the only influence on this film's depiction of the Clown Prince of Crime. "I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there's a very clear direction that fits what we're doing very well."
Ledger advised The Toronto Star that "it's obviously not going to be what Jack Nicholson did. It's going to be more nuanced and dark and more along the lines of A Clockwork Orange kind of feel. Which is, I think, what the comic book was after: less about his laugh and more about his eyes."
The Joker and Heath Ledger.
When asked about which particular comics may have inspired The Dark Knight, a coy Goyer – who scripted Batman Begins and plotted the second installment with Chris Nolan (Jonah Nolan, the helmer's brother, is scripting The Dark Knight) – said, "I think the easiest way to look at it is that Batman Begins is a certain kind of approach to the Batman mythology. It wasn't exactly Year One and it wasn't exactly The Dark Knight [Returns] or anything else. But it certainly was a less flamboyant, more realistic approach to the Batman world so we would attempt to apply the same kind of, I guess, grounded realism moving forward."
So here's what we know for sure: The Dark Knight will be about "things having to get worse before they get better." The Joker will have more of a Clockwork Orange vibe, and his depiction will owe more to the character's first two comic book appearances than to The Killing Joke. The film, like Batman Begins, will offer "a less flamboyant, more realistic approach" to the world of Batman than has been seen in past movies.
Batman Begins hints at The Joker's comic book roots. That film ended with a rooftop meeting between Batman (Christian Bale) and Lt. Jim Gordon (Gary Oldman), where Gordon shows Batman a Joker calling card left by an armed robber with "a taste for the theatrical." In his first two comic appearances, The Joker was a jewel thief who had a macabre way of dispatching his victims (the Joker toxin). Although he was physically bizarre and enjoyed causing a public panic, his motive was always robbery not mayhem for the sheer sake of it (unlike his later incarnations).
Taking Christopher Nolan at his word and using Batman #1, which includes The Joker's first two appearances, as the template for The Dark Knight, one can see how the plot of the sequel and The Joker's depiction might be influenced.
Many of the Clown Prince's signature elements are introduced in the first story: his Joker venom, which leaves victims with a posthumous grin; his Joker calling card; his purple suit and broad-brimmed hat; and his desire to dare the police and Batman to stop him. Notably, The Joker acts alone in both stories, without any henchmen to kill when the urge strikes him.
The Joker is described at various points as a "grim jester" and "harlequin of hate" who has "a smile without mirth – rather a smile of death." He has an aptitude for chemistry, evident by his secret lab and ability to create poisons. He also reveals that he has done prison time, presumably from his pre-Joker days.
In the first story, Joker targets five notable Gothamites – Henry Claridge, Jay Wilde, Brute Nelson, Judge Drake and Otto Drexel – by making public declarations of his intentions just hours before the heist-homicides are to take place. He targets Claridge, Wilde and Drexel because they possess such precious gems as the Claridge Diamond, the Ronkers Ruby and the Cleopatra Necklace. With the exception of Drexel and the Cleopatra Necklace, Joker manages to steal the gems and kill all his victims by either poisoning them ahead of time or hiding within their home.
With Brute Nelson and Judge Drake, his motives are more personal. Nelson is a gangster who, along with other members of the underworld, want to get rid of The Joker because he's stealing jewels they had been plotting to heist. Nelson spreads the word through the underworld grapevine that he wants to take on The Joker; the Clown Prince obliges by sneaking into Nelson's home to kill him. Batman, who has been inexplicably sitting out the hunt for The Joker because he felt "the time isn't ripe," finally gets involved. He first encounters Joker at Nelson's place. Joker kills Nelson (using bullets rather than poison) while Batman tussles with Nelson's goons. Curiously, a caption notes that The Joker kills Brute "to settle an old score." What old score? It's a striking throwaway reference.
Joker then targets Judge Drake, whom he reveals once sent him to prison. This establishes that Joker has a criminal past prior to becoming a costumed villain. (Could this be where his "old score" with Nelson comes from? It's not too much of a leap from that to The Joker's Red Hood origin story.) The Joker is also revealed to be a master of disguise. He impersonates the police chief in order to get close enough to Drake to kill him inside the judge's home. The Joker is also lethally punctual. When he says someone will die at ten o'clock sharp, they die right then. After Batman (and Robin, who will not appear in the new films) foil Joker's bid to kill Otto Drexel and steal the Cleopatra Necklace, The Joker is incarcerated but is already plotting his escape.
DC
The final chapter in Batman #1 is "The Joker Returns." Set just two days after the first appearance, The Joker manages to escape from jail by using an explosive chemical mix hidden inside two false teeth (he waited two whole days before thinking of that?!). Joker's ego is bruised after being shown up by Batman and the police. "Jail me, will they? A man of my intellect? I'll escape and make them pay for this insult!" This establishes the character's vanity and hubris, and also personalizes his conflict with Batman as a clash of brilliant like minds.
The Joker's lair is an underground lab in a deserted cemetery; he enters through a faux gravestone. His first victim is Gotham Chief of Police Chalmers, whom he kills presumably because he'd been jailed. Chalmers – it is not clear if this is the same "police chief" that The Joker impersonated in order to kill Judge Drake – is dispatched in a clever but ridiculous manner. Joker calls Chalmers and yells loud enough for the vibrations to trigger a poison dart concealed in the earpiece. Despite The Joker's public declarations that he will kill someone at a certain place and time, the police never seem to adequately safeguard the victim's surroundings. No wonder Gotham needs Batman.
The Clown Prince's next two crimes are glossed over: He steals a famous painting from a gallery, leaving his calling card behind, and then steals a rare gem and kills its unnamed owner. Batman and Joker finally meet again at the Drake museum, home of the Cleopatra Necklace (wasn't it at Otto Drexel's estate just two days before?!). The Joker escapes Batman's clutches again.
Joker's next target is reformer Edgar Martin, who has been making speeches saying that if the police can't stop Joker then the people must. Vexed by Martin's crusade, Joker publicly declares that he will kill him. The reformer dies in his own home, surrounded by cops, after he starts playing with a deck of cards. The sharpened edges of the cards – all of them jokers – are laced with Joker venom.
Bruce Wayne meets with Commissioner Gordon and suggests planting a newspaper story about a famous gem as a means to lure The Joker into a trap. The Joker suspects the trap, but nevertheless decides to pull the job. "Jewels – my pretty jewels! How I would love to add the Fire Ruby to my collection! I must have it," Joker cries as he examines his stolen gems. The Joker is a collector and not in it for the profit it seems.
Batman and the police confront Joker when he breaks in to steal the Fire Ruby. After gunning down several cops, Joker attempts to escape across the rooftops. The battle ends with The Joker attempting to stab Batman only to accidentally impale himself on his own dagger. "The Joker's going to die," he cackles. "The laugh is on The Joker! Ha! Ha! Laugh clown laugh!" It is revealed at the very end, however, that The Joker did not actually die.
Given these plot elements and the on-the-record comments from Nolan, Goyer and Ledger, one can see how The Dark Knight might have the Clown Prince terrorizing Gotham with a robbery-homicide spree. It seems doubtful that any villain would use radio nowadays to announce his plans so taped messages for TV or online seem more likely. The Joker's targeting of wealthy Gothamites seems like an obvious opportunity for him to attack Bruce Wayne and thus draw the film's main character deeper into the plot.
What is particularly interesting are The Joker's vendettas against Brute Nelson and Judge Drake. It is not inconceivable that the gangsters who have assumed control of organized crime following Carmine Falcone's demise in the first film might perceive The Joker as a threat to their operations. Jim Gordon warned of "escalation" in the closing moments of Begins but that was widely assumed to have meant in regards to lawmen and criminals. Escalation could also apply to traditional criminals being threatened by the actions of this new breed of bad guy.
A figure who could bridge this gap between traditional gangster and supervillain is Oswald Cobblepot, a.k.a. The Penguin, whom the rumor mill has long suggested might have a small role in the sequel (he has been rumored to be portrayed as a Russian or British arms dealer). Where you have The Penguin you could have a Faberge egg and, given the early Joker's penchant for precious gems, well, you see where we're going.
And might the "old score" that Joker killed Nelson over have anything to do with events in the last film? Or with the Red Hood origin story? It seems like that would be a good way to tie The Joker's backstory into the main events of the film without falling prey to any momentum-killing exposition.
WB
The Joker's targeting of Judge Drake also offers intriguing possibilities for The Dark Knight. Batman Begins introduced the corrupt Judge Phalen. Could Judge Phalen return in the sequel to get his just desserts for being a pawn of the underworld?
Or is it possible that Rachel herself could be the target of The Joker's revenge, perhaps getting shot a la Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke? What The Joker did to Barbara after shooting her is reminiscent of the more disturbing crimes seen in A Clockwork Orange, a film that Ledger referred to when asked about how The Joker will be portrayed this time. Ledger's comment that this film's Joker will be "less about his laugh and more about his eyes" also fits in with Batman #1's depiction of him as a "grim jester" who has a "smile without mirth." Such a brutal crime against Rachel – or maybe even against rumored new D.A. Harvey Dent – would certainly personalize the battle between Batman and Joker more than it being over who is the bigger genius.
The Joker also targeted the chief of police during his first appearances, which could clear the way for Lt. Gordon to eventually become Commissioner Gordon. Or perhaps The Joker targets Gordon himself? The thought of Gordon as the "damsel in distress," like he was in The Killing Joke, could deepen the bond between himself and Batman. Perhaps Gordon is the cop who busted a pre-supervillain Joker?
Another interesting question is where does the Joker get his poison? Did he invent it himself? Or is it a by-product of the weaponry that Wayne Enterprises was developing prior to Bruce Wayne regaining control of his company? Maybe Lucius Fox knows.
So here's a possible Dark Knight plot to mull over. The Joker, a freakish new kind of criminal, terrorizes Gotham City with his daring, gruesome robbery-homicide spree. He provides Batman with a foe that is his mental equivalent; the Dark Knight Detective must deduce how this grim jester is committing his crimes and how to stop him. The Joker's crime wave also riles the traditional underworld, which vainly conspires to kill him. The Joker's crimes become increasingly personal for Batman as his new arch-enemy targets his closest allies. Unsurprisingly, there would have to be some sort of climatic "beat the clock" set-piece that Batman must stop in order to save the day.
There have been worse plots for Batman films. Only time will tell if the joke was on us.
Dark Knight Detective Work
IGN dissects the next Bat-film, investigating its ties to the character's comic book roots.
by Stax
September 29, 2006 - The purpose of this feature is to speculate on what The Dark Knight, the follow-up to Batman Begins, might be about and how The Joker (to be played by Heath Ledger) might be portrayed in the film. This speculation will be based primarily on the public comments made by the film's principals – including Ledger, director Christopher Nolan and Batman Begins screenwriter David Goyer – as well as an analysis of the comic books cited by them as being an influence on the sequel.
"The title has been chosen very specifically. It's quite important to the film," Chris Nolan said in a recent interview with Mean Magazine. The helmer coyly declined to elaborate further on that meaning, saying, "I'll leave that for people to infer."
In that same interview, Nolan addressed some of the themes of the film. In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne confronted his fear and explored the meaning of justice versus revenge. The Dark Knight will be "about things having to get worse before they get better."
While Nolan did not go into great detail about The Joker, he advised fans that Alan Moore's classic graphic novel The Killing Joke won't be the only influence on this film's depiction of the Clown Prince of Crime. "I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there's a very clear direction that fits what we're doing very well."
Ledger advised The Toronto Star that "it's obviously not going to be what Jack Nicholson did. It's going to be more nuanced and dark and more along the lines of A Clockwork Orange kind of feel. Which is, I think, what the comic book was after: less about his laugh and more about his eyes."
The Joker and Heath Ledger.
When asked about which particular comics may have inspired The Dark Knight, a coy Goyer – who scripted Batman Begins and plotted the second installment with Chris Nolan (Jonah Nolan, the helmer's brother, is scripting The Dark Knight) – said, "I think the easiest way to look at it is that Batman Begins is a certain kind of approach to the Batman mythology. It wasn't exactly Year One and it wasn't exactly The Dark Knight [Returns] or anything else. But it certainly was a less flamboyant, more realistic approach to the Batman world so we would attempt to apply the same kind of, I guess, grounded realism moving forward."
So here's what we know for sure: The Dark Knight will be about "things having to get worse before they get better." The Joker will have more of a Clockwork Orange vibe, and his depiction will owe more to the character's first two comic book appearances than to The Killing Joke. The film, like Batman Begins, will offer "a less flamboyant, more realistic approach" to the world of Batman than has been seen in past movies.
Batman Begins hints at The Joker's comic book roots. That film ended with a rooftop meeting between Batman (Christian Bale) and Lt. Jim Gordon (Gary Oldman), where Gordon shows Batman a Joker calling card left by an armed robber with "a taste for the theatrical." In his first two comic appearances, The Joker was a jewel thief who had a macabre way of dispatching his victims (the Joker toxin). Although he was physically bizarre and enjoyed causing a public panic, his motive was always robbery not mayhem for the sheer sake of it (unlike his later incarnations).
Taking Christopher Nolan at his word and using Batman #1, which includes The Joker's first two appearances, as the template for The Dark Knight, one can see how the plot of the sequel and The Joker's depiction might be influenced.
Many of the Clown Prince's signature elements are introduced in the first story: his Joker venom, which leaves victims with a posthumous grin; his Joker calling card; his purple suit and broad-brimmed hat; and his desire to dare the police and Batman to stop him. Notably, The Joker acts alone in both stories, without any henchmen to kill when the urge strikes him.
The Joker is described at various points as a "grim jester" and "harlequin of hate" who has "a smile without mirth – rather a smile of death." He has an aptitude for chemistry, evident by his secret lab and ability to create poisons. He also reveals that he has done prison time, presumably from his pre-Joker days.
In the first story, Joker targets five notable Gothamites – Henry Claridge, Jay Wilde, Brute Nelson, Judge Drake and Otto Drexel – by making public declarations of his intentions just hours before the heist-homicides are to take place. He targets Claridge, Wilde and Drexel because they possess such precious gems as the Claridge Diamond, the Ronkers Ruby and the Cleopatra Necklace. With the exception of Drexel and the Cleopatra Necklace, Joker manages to steal the gems and kill all his victims by either poisoning them ahead of time or hiding within their home.
With Brute Nelson and Judge Drake, his motives are more personal. Nelson is a gangster who, along with other members of the underworld, want to get rid of The Joker because he's stealing jewels they had been plotting to heist. Nelson spreads the word through the underworld grapevine that he wants to take on The Joker; the Clown Prince obliges by sneaking into Nelson's home to kill him. Batman, who has been inexplicably sitting out the hunt for The Joker because he felt "the time isn't ripe," finally gets involved. He first encounters Joker at Nelson's place. Joker kills Nelson (using bullets rather than poison) while Batman tussles with Nelson's goons. Curiously, a caption notes that The Joker kills Brute "to settle an old score." What old score? It's a striking throwaway reference.
Joker then targets Judge Drake, whom he reveals once sent him to prison. This establishes that Joker has a criminal past prior to becoming a costumed villain. (Could this be where his "old score" with Nelson comes from? It's not too much of a leap from that to The Joker's Red Hood origin story.) The Joker is also revealed to be a master of disguise. He impersonates the police chief in order to get close enough to Drake to kill him inside the judge's home. The Joker is also lethally punctual. When he says someone will die at ten o'clock sharp, they die right then. After Batman (and Robin, who will not appear in the new films) foil Joker's bid to kill Otto Drexel and steal the Cleopatra Necklace, The Joker is incarcerated but is already plotting his escape.
DC
The final chapter in Batman #1 is "The Joker Returns." Set just two days after the first appearance, The Joker manages to escape from jail by using an explosive chemical mix hidden inside two false teeth (he waited two whole days before thinking of that?!). Joker's ego is bruised after being shown up by Batman and the police. "Jail me, will they? A man of my intellect? I'll escape and make them pay for this insult!" This establishes the character's vanity and hubris, and also personalizes his conflict with Batman as a clash of brilliant like minds.
The Joker's lair is an underground lab in a deserted cemetery; he enters through a faux gravestone. His first victim is Gotham Chief of Police Chalmers, whom he kills presumably because he'd been jailed. Chalmers – it is not clear if this is the same "police chief" that The Joker impersonated in order to kill Judge Drake – is dispatched in a clever but ridiculous manner. Joker calls Chalmers and yells loud enough for the vibrations to trigger a poison dart concealed in the earpiece. Despite The Joker's public declarations that he will kill someone at a certain place and time, the police never seem to adequately safeguard the victim's surroundings. No wonder Gotham needs Batman.
The Clown Prince's next two crimes are glossed over: He steals a famous painting from a gallery, leaving his calling card behind, and then steals a rare gem and kills its unnamed owner. Batman and Joker finally meet again at the Drake museum, home of the Cleopatra Necklace (wasn't it at Otto Drexel's estate just two days before?!). The Joker escapes Batman's clutches again.
Joker's next target is reformer Edgar Martin, who has been making speeches saying that if the police can't stop Joker then the people must. Vexed by Martin's crusade, Joker publicly declares that he will kill him. The reformer dies in his own home, surrounded by cops, after he starts playing with a deck of cards. The sharpened edges of the cards – all of them jokers – are laced with Joker venom.
Bruce Wayne meets with Commissioner Gordon and suggests planting a newspaper story about a famous gem as a means to lure The Joker into a trap. The Joker suspects the trap, but nevertheless decides to pull the job. "Jewels – my pretty jewels! How I would love to add the Fire Ruby to my collection! I must have it," Joker cries as he examines his stolen gems. The Joker is a collector and not in it for the profit it seems.
Batman and the police confront Joker when he breaks in to steal the Fire Ruby. After gunning down several cops, Joker attempts to escape across the rooftops. The battle ends with The Joker attempting to stab Batman only to accidentally impale himself on his own dagger. "The Joker's going to die," he cackles. "The laugh is on The Joker! Ha! Ha! Laugh clown laugh!" It is revealed at the very end, however, that The Joker did not actually die.
Given these plot elements and the on-the-record comments from Nolan, Goyer and Ledger, one can see how The Dark Knight might have the Clown Prince terrorizing Gotham with a robbery-homicide spree. It seems doubtful that any villain would use radio nowadays to announce his plans so taped messages for TV or online seem more likely. The Joker's targeting of wealthy Gothamites seems like an obvious opportunity for him to attack Bruce Wayne and thus draw the film's main character deeper into the plot.
What is particularly interesting are The Joker's vendettas against Brute Nelson and Judge Drake. It is not inconceivable that the gangsters who have assumed control of organized crime following Carmine Falcone's demise in the first film might perceive The Joker as a threat to their operations. Jim Gordon warned of "escalation" in the closing moments of Begins but that was widely assumed to have meant in regards to lawmen and criminals. Escalation could also apply to traditional criminals being threatened by the actions of this new breed of bad guy.
A figure who could bridge this gap between traditional gangster and supervillain is Oswald Cobblepot, a.k.a. The Penguin, whom the rumor mill has long suggested might have a small role in the sequel (he has been rumored to be portrayed as a Russian or British arms dealer). Where you have The Penguin you could have a Faberge egg and, given the early Joker's penchant for precious gems, well, you see where we're going.
And might the "old score" that Joker killed Nelson over have anything to do with events in the last film? Or with the Red Hood origin story? It seems like that would be a good way to tie The Joker's backstory into the main events of the film without falling prey to any momentum-killing exposition.
WB
The Joker's targeting of Judge Drake also offers intriguing possibilities for The Dark Knight. Batman Begins introduced the corrupt Judge Phalen. Could Judge Phalen return in the sequel to get his just desserts for being a pawn of the underworld?
Or is it possible that Rachel herself could be the target of The Joker's revenge, perhaps getting shot a la Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke? What The Joker did to Barbara after shooting her is reminiscent of the more disturbing crimes seen in A Clockwork Orange, a film that Ledger referred to when asked about how The Joker will be portrayed this time. Ledger's comment that this film's Joker will be "less about his laugh and more about his eyes" also fits in with Batman #1's depiction of him as a "grim jester" who has a "smile without mirth." Such a brutal crime against Rachel – or maybe even against rumored new D.A. Harvey Dent – would certainly personalize the battle between Batman and Joker more than it being over who is the bigger genius.
The Joker also targeted the chief of police during his first appearances, which could clear the way for Lt. Gordon to eventually become Commissioner Gordon. Or perhaps The Joker targets Gordon himself? The thought of Gordon as the "damsel in distress," like he was in The Killing Joke, could deepen the bond between himself and Batman. Perhaps Gordon is the cop who busted a pre-supervillain Joker?
Another interesting question is where does the Joker get his poison? Did he invent it himself? Or is it a by-product of the weaponry that Wayne Enterprises was developing prior to Bruce Wayne regaining control of his company? Maybe Lucius Fox knows.
So here's a possible Dark Knight plot to mull over. The Joker, a freakish new kind of criminal, terrorizes Gotham City with his daring, gruesome robbery-homicide spree. He provides Batman with a foe that is his mental equivalent; the Dark Knight Detective must deduce how this grim jester is committing his crimes and how to stop him. The Joker's crime wave also riles the traditional underworld, which vainly conspires to kill him. The Joker's crimes become increasingly personal for Batman as his new arch-enemy targets his closest allies. Unsurprisingly, there would have to be some sort of climatic "beat the clock" set-piece that Batman must stop in order to save the day.
There have been worse plots for Batman films. Only time will tell if the joke was on us.
